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| by "RedScorpion ges" on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 10:10:16 AM | |  | 31 Subjects 871 Posts |
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| n/m found out lol wasnt a selected active char on log in.3 active 3 inactive can only use the ones active,kinda silly. |
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| by "The Blessinator" on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 10:06:41 AM | | | 31 Subjects 871 Posts |
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i agree they need to continue working on what there working on so we dont lose even more players.
but a good dose of industrial strength common sense for future words,or letters added may not lead to this situation.
p.s. why is "RedScorpion ges" blocked from posting on forums this time? |
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| by "Hador GES" on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 8:17:12 AM | | | 9 Subjects 326 Posts |
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Red, I never talked about real bad words.
As boboh said, words in the bots list are there because there was a need to "block" someones language on main.
That mean we have 2 choices
1. ganbot takes shouts when it identifies the word
2. a gm decides who when gets shouts removed for how long.
1: its an inconvenience to players who didnt mean to cuss in any way and didnt offend anybody
2: people who try to offend someone, get shouts removed, and most probabaly (experience postulates) use tiny arguments like fovoritism to cause major inconvenince to the gm.
I agree with red and grim, that there are some words on the list that should not need to be in there.
unfortunatly imho taking away these words will transfer a little inconvenince from a few players to a major inconvenience to the gm's and boboh.
concerning the stress of new content and updates, its very impracticable. |
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| by "Grim Luke GES" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 8:52:12 PM | | | 11 Subjects 202 Posts |
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lol think these guys fit right in here |
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| by "boboh" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:33:00 AM | |  | |  | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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"listens to music or goes to church,just plain exists in this world will hear the same if not worse.theres no"
This not an excuse to allow it here.
As for acronyms, such as life, this is due not to us wanting to but instead of abusive people. You claim that ganbot teaches things, this is false, abusive people are the ones that teach it, then use it. As Cougar and Hador point out, the majority has no problem with the minor inconveniences associated with ganbot to not be constantly subjected to abusive language, whereas only a few see it as a problem.
As for other languages, it's a global server and so other languages get consideration as well. |
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| by "boboh" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:28:01 AM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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The words in there have been placed there because and only because they have been repeatidly used abusively. Note the verbage, REPEATIDLY.
We are always up for adjusting, will take anything into consideration, as I have posted below, give the word and why it shouldn't be blocked or the time too much. That doesn't mean it will be removed or adjusted but it will be changed.
It's false to think that we don't make changes, the fact is, we remove or reduce more words each month than we add at this point.
You can not say make it PG-13 and expect it to meet your definition of such. You must give specifics when they come up.
You can also talk about server names, but that is not going to change any more than it is at this time, this has all been explained in the posts below.
"After all in part of the game you cuss a npc and some of them cuss you back"
Common sense excludes this as part of the discussion, it is not over the public CC. Remember you can say almost anything you want in private or overheads (there are limits here but not many.)
"And i guarntee ganbot has removed way way more shouts than any GM did in the past."
Yes, he catches more often, but for far less time and I guarantee that everybody gets the same treatment. Nobody can make false claims of favoritism.
When the GMs did it only, the CCs were horibly abused, at least 3-6 times a month I would get an angry email from parents that wouldn't let their kids play on our family oriented server. Ganbot stopped that. You take for grantid what is being controlled, you blame ganbot but it's not the problem, abusive people are.
As for other languages, this you have to get use to, the server is multi-cultural, and it effects the other languages the same way. It is a minor inconvenience. And this is the biggest point, if you on occasion make a typo, you on occasion loose your shouts for a short time, this is minor for the bennifit, this argument has been made and is what the majority of players accept. Ganbot will not be changed, only adjusted.
Over the past 12 months only 1 word per month has been added on average, nothing drastic has been changed.
"Congrats you just taught a little kid a new cuss word. "
Again, common sense, they will pick up the words from other areas AND they will pick up the words in game if ganbot allows them. Because abusive players use them. There is absolutly no excuse to allow these words. Fact is you can operate just fine in game the way it is.
There is no argument that has come close to convincing me that a major change needs to be made, what you forget or don't care to acknowlege is the way it was before, it's much better now than it was then on many levels. We are not going back because a few people feel otherwise.
Bring a specific word/phrase, reason why and it will be considered, this is a more than viable way to address everything you are complaining about. Not following this tells me your argments are just to argue/compain and not to resolve. |
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| by "RedScorpion ges" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:15:59 AM | | | 31 Subjects 871 Posts |
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| lol hador no one in this post is talking about removing the bot or gm's hence no favortism,what are you talking about? |
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| by "Redscorpion ges" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:13:10 AM | | | 31 Subjects 871 Posts |
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| *edit* hmmm removes one of the double posts. |
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| by "RedScorpion ges" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:12:22 AM | | | 31 Subjects 871 Posts |
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i stated a long time ago yes the "real bad" words should be in the bot.but silly shit should be removed.initials,acronyms,synonyms,abeviaitions,insinuations,all the little bs that adds up to some words in diff languages that are thought to be bad,any1 who goes to school or watches tv,listens to music or goes to church,just plain exists in this world will hear the same if not worse.theres no sense in ruining the game there is no way you can shield sum1 100% unless you ruin the game and keep them in a bubble.
im not saying get rid of the bot or the cc monitoring,i dont know what i would do without the bot,huge asset but get realitic about it. |
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| by "RedScorpion ges" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:12:21 AM | | | 31 Subjects 871 Posts |
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i stated a long time ago yes the "real bad" words should be in the bot.but silly shit should be removed.initials,acronyms,synonyms,abeviaitions,insinuations,all the little bs that adds up to some words in diff languages that are thought to be bad,any1 who goes to school or watches tv,listens to music or goes to church,just plain exists in this world will hear the same if not worse.theres no sense in ruining the game there is no way you can shield sum1 100% unless you ruin the game and keep them in a bubble.
im not saying get rid of the bot or the cc monitoring,i dont know what i would do without the bot,huge asset but get realitic about it. |
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| by "Hador GES" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:06:51 AM | | | 9 Subjects 326 Posts |
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*did not loose shouts
-> sorry  |
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| by "Hador GES" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:05:52 AM | | | 9 Subjects 326 Posts |
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exactly what I thought when reading this, Cougar-A.
But it even goes further. these guys pushing the limit will start complaining and crying favoritism nonesense, because someone else who didnt push as far did loose shouts. and then the gm bashing begins. its always the same story... |
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| by "Cougar-A" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 8:45:52 AM | | | 24 Subjects 210 Posts |
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| I can say some seems like its going to far with bot But then again how many people do you see that will pick a word that they know already are that they have seen someone just loose shouts for then say it over and over and loose shouts for it then what happens the people that lost there shouts over something that they knew they they was gonna for and then do nothing but complain about loosing them for it and like was stated why is it most words are in the bot is because of what i just said earlier for the most part people push till they are in one way are another eighter by abusing it are voting it I in no way am bashing one but just saying |
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| by "Grim Luke GES" on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 7:12:08 AM | | | 11 Subjects 202 Posts |
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| Isn't all votes done by Gold accounts? Players that will most likely stay until they turn t,w,th. And i dont believe anyone thinks ganbot should be done away with. Just updated to a pg-13 rating. After all in part of the game you cuss a npc and some of them cuss you back. Everyone know what BS means and its not in the bot cause its part of the game. TG is part of the game and in the bot, while very few people knew what it meant until the bot took shouts for it. Congrats you just taught a little kid a new cuss word. All these words noone knew in diff languages as cuss words ganbot is just spreading the word. And i guarntee ganbot has removed way way more shouts than any GM did in the past. Combine all GM's and how many times they have taken shouts then tell us how many times has ganbot. Would see a GM take shouts like once a week. Ganbot is daily if not hourly sometimes. See how often people say xxyyzz just to lose shouts. It's not effective and its a hassle 90% of the time, since what you lost shouts for is totally new to you or the player doesnt care either way. |
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| by "boboh" on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 6:11:38 PM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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>And what did the majority feel that left? More have left than have stayed.
The votes always, since ganbot started, showed that the majority of current players wanted it. The recent vote was only a few percentage points different than the vote done nearly 2+ years ago, which was nearly the same as the vote about 1 year ago. So yes, the majority of players that left, wanted it as per the votes. In otherwords, to simplify, ganbot has always had the majority of players liking it. We've had multiple votes on it.
Yes, all votes have flaws, but to claim that flaws negate a vote, negates all votes. All I can tell you and go by is what the votes have shown, and it's always been a high majority. |
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| by "Grim Luke GES" on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 4:56:23 PM | | | 11 Subjects 202 Posts |
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Ganbot is also the reason many people have stay on our server. I realize you don't believe it but the majority of players are happy to put up with the occasional typoe sanction to avoid having to see abusive players say things.
And what did the majority feel that left? More have left than have stayed. So wouldnt the people that stayed be more likely to be happy with how things are or enough to stay? Voting can be flawed in many ways especially when the votes you are looking for went to another server. |
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| by "RedScorpion ges" on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 4:52:20 PM | | | 31 Subjects 871 Posts |
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| yeah kinda late i brought it up a long time ago,just takes sum1 else to bring it up besides me to get it changed. |
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| by "boboh" on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 3:19:23 PM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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Your right, everything does, and when people bring flaws to our attention they get addressed.
Read the discussion it's described below. |
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| by "RedScorpion ges" on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 2:10:30 PM | | | 31 Subjects 871 Posts |
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| yes ganbot is a "Great" asset but that dont mean there arnt any flaws. |
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| by "boboh" on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 10:49:46 AM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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Ganbot is also the reason many people have stay on our server. I realize you don't believe it but the majority of players are happy to put up with the occasional typoe sanction to avoid having to see abusive players say things.
I've already explained many times the reason why server names are there, re-read my posts. |
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| by "Grim Luke GES" on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 6:23:30 AM | | | 11 Subjects 202 Posts |
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| Almost lost a player over this last time it was brought up. Nothing much was done then. There are alot of reason's why people left the server but couldnt stuff like this be a part of it also? |
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| by "boboh" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 9:11:24 PM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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>ganbot that i can't believe is there i say and so have many GM's, just to see if it is.
And there is nothing against the rules for that, but there is no need for mellodrama when it happens. Simple explination of what you think, ie that a specific word should/shouldn't be there, the time is too little, too much, etc. That's all it takes for us to consider it. To complain about ambiguity will not get anything changed, ganbot's not going to be turned off. He will however, be adjusted. Although, maybe not every time or on every request, but they all get considered.
>A suggestion: can ganbot inform the user that discussion of other servers is not allowed
I'm sure it could be added, it's a matter of programming. Don't know if Mark has time for it at the moment (he is still lead on Ganbot dev.) |
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| by "Lockey GES" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 9:04:41 PM | | | | | | | 41 Subjects 346 Posts |
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I actually thought Jim was jokeing about it. If I lost shouts for an hour I wouldn't have mind it as much. Well, 1 hour is certainly better then 10. If I didn't misspell how I first came across t4c from an ad for eacceleration, then I would have lost from that (if that server is on the list as well)
A suggestion: can ganbot inform the user that discussion of other servers is not allowed on public cc's instead of saying the word is just offensive? It probably would have less negative effects.
Ganbot pages you: Your shouts are revoked for 60 minutes due to Discussing other servers is not allowed on the public channels. |
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| by "Grim Luke GES" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 9:04:34 PM | | | 11 Subjects 202 Posts |
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| I'm not real sure i see the point of making posts at all anymore. Been discussed over and over still in the bot still takes shouts for it. And point out the fact Lockey knew either way hes just pointing out how he feels and how others do also. And half the stuff in ganbot that i can't believe is there i say and so have many GM's, just to see if it is. |
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| by "RedScorpion ges" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 5:54:17 PM | | | 31 Subjects 871 Posts |
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umm boboh lol such a short memory you have lol dont you remember me and this topic just not so long ago ?
even made a newbie trial acct char with a server name? remember now? and as for lightning lockey comming back and playing hasnt been on in a long time
you even tested it yourself i was online "always" when you did it.lol
and im glad the time got lowered its pretty stupid in the first place.hi im a new here i just quit such and such server and thought i might like this one,"BLAM" now only without shouts lmao |
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| by "boboh" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 4:46:33 PM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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It was found that realmud actually was in there twice for 5 hours each, thus giving 10 hours. That was a typoe, as all other server names are 5 hours.
After considering the effects it's been reduced to 1 hour (the minimum) per server name.
However, Lockey, you failed to tell everybody that you were told by Big Jim that you would loose your shouts for saying it, before you said it. So this situation is actually not a real one where you were unexpectedly sanctioned, but instead one you created purposly. If you suspected that this problem was real, the melodramtics would not be necessary. Simply bringing it for discussion would have been enough.
Just don't wonder why I'm synical about certain situations, discussions and people. |
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| by "boboh" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 2:26:02 PM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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Yes lol its better when GM take shouts. Thats what we've been tryn to say for months.
Funny thing is before ganbot, people said just the opposite, and many many more than the few that are posting here now. There was a huge cry about how the GMs took shouts for days and weeks, when ganbot was put in everybody was happy. We are not going back to a previously failed system.
If however, you feel the need to chat without restriction there are choices, IMs, or even a more simple choice, make your own CC ingame and tell people about it. It is not restricted in any way.
600 minutes for saying a server name is a bit high, it will be reviewed.
All these posts about Ganbot would cease.
You might get a complaint about a GM once in a while being harsh about taking shouts but will be far less in complaints as to this.
No, they wouldn't cease, and instead you would have players posting complaints about favortism, or unfairness, in inequal treatment. The inconvenience is minor and as stated, if reasonable information is provided about specific words, the length of time, and why or why not they should be there, it will be reviewed and considered. |
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Well, problem with crappy and suck is it was being heavily used as a direct insult towards other users over public cc's.
Though if there was an advertiseing problem, there would be continuous posts now complaining of spam because it is easy to mask server names as it would be to mask vulgarity. And someone would probably be standing in LH or SH spamming it in overheads as well. I don't know about the Brasil or French CC's, but I don't remember having this problem when we had like 150-200+ users on.
I had no shout revoctions for the past few months. My first offense for saying any offensive words was saying realmud and I lost shouts for 600 minutes. The only word I know of that takes shouts for that long is the F-bomber. Which is like the 'unforgiveable curse'.
A person that probably left another server most likely would be in an irratable mood to get away. If the person is already irratable and meantions on public cc's of where they came from and lost shouts immediatly, I doubt the person's interest for Grapevine will remain the same. People, unfortunatly, remember negative things more then all the posative things. |
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| by "Grim Luke GES" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 12:51:03 PM | | | 11 Subjects 202 Posts |
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| Yes lol its better when GM take shouts. Thats what we've been tryn to say for months. But we only mean it in a sense. Ganbot does alot of good and certain words should be kept for him to remove shouts for. But this piddly junk like saying crappy or realmud or pg-13 stuff should be left to the consideration of GM's. All these posts about Ganbot would cease. You might get a complaint about a GM once in a while being harsh about taking shouts but will be far less in complaints as to this. |
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| by "boboh" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 11:38:26 AM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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rating and maybe a warning like GM's used to give
GMs used to take shouts for days or even weeks, Ganbot does warn by taking shouts for much smaller amounts of time.
If we go back to GMs doing it, then shouts will be removed for days and weeks, this is better? There is no in between, that's why Ganbot was made to make the removal for shorter set times.
You get increased times for repeatid violations. If you think a word has too much time, that can be discussed, but it better be discussed accurately, for example how many other violations did you have previously, do you know the exact time, if not, it can be found out. And what was the exact phrase that lost the shout.
Ganbot is adjusted regularly, at this time the average number of word added each month is 1, many more have time reductions sometimes a word is removed. Things have not increased dramatically, they are very much the same as they have been.
Give specific words that a shout was lost for, the time you lost it, what you feel is the honest descrepancy, etc. and it will be considered, it always has. |
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| by "Grim Luke GES" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 11:22:34 AM | | | 11 Subjects 202 Posts |
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| And boboh what exactly did the vote on ganbot specify that would be changed? dont believe it was a very clear vote on what was going to happen by a yes or no vote or what might possibly happen. Still i got 489 mins for saying crappy. |
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| by "Grim Luke GES" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 11:19:56 AM | | | 11 Subjects 202 Posts |
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| this is gonna go back to how much ganbot knows again.. all players have to do is keep saying something on main that might possibly mean something to get it added to the bot. All kinds of letter combinations and the more that is added to the bot the more posts you will get like this. It's been suggested that GM's take shouts for this and there was also a vote on Ganbot. Ganbot should be changed some, at least a pg-13 rating and maybe a warning like GM's used to give. It's not alot to ask and it keeps coming up. |
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| by "boboh" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 10:58:39 AM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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It was added August last year.
Check for other server names, there have been more added for a lot longer than that. Not all were put in at the beggining, some were missed. And I'll bet some are not in there. |
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| by "boboh" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 10:56:09 AM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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> "I can 5 hit a sent now" or something.
Well again, you have only those that are abusive to blame, this would never have been put in to ganbot if it hadn't been repeatidly been used abusively. It's not going to change. It's one of those little things you have to tollerate for the overall bennifit.
"However, I belive there was one instance in all the time I've been here that someone advertised for a different server and that "
Read my posts, I've repeated, it's not about advertising. Address the reason why I've stated it's being done if you want me to consider changes. Repeadedly saying it's about advertising when it's not the reason, makes for no discussion.
"Should of been changed when valid points were made a while back."
When valid points were made, changes were made. There are words that have had time reduced and even removed from ganbot. Votes have been done and the majority of players have wanted it this way. |
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| by "Grim Luke GES" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 8:00:41 AM | | | 11 Subjects 202 Posts |
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| was a big deal made about this before. Should of been changed when valid points were made a while back. All going back to Ganbot doing to much in place of GM's. |
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Probably could have used something different then 5 hit, but it is used like "I can 5 hit a sent now" or something.
I fully agree that advertiseing services that are not releated or beneficial to GV are grounds for sevear shout revoction and/or banning because obviously the person wants to cause harm to the GV community.
However, I belive there was one instance in all the time I've been here that someone advertised for a different server and that person was told to bug off. That person then started deleating and makeing toons to impersonate other users and kept at it for a half an hour.
Lets say someone left a server and came here. The person always heard GV was a great place and good community with a fair sysop. "Hi I'm from (server name), anyone else from there too? I left because of such-and-such reason."
Ganbot pages you: your shouts were revoked....
It wouldn't be a good impression. Was there a huge server war this summer where there was a lot of advertiseing to have to use the bot to revoke shouts for using other server names?
Instead of takeing shouts, we should be more welcoming to those that left those servers. It would also stink if the person said, "GV is much better then my last server, (server name). And then lose shouts over complementing GV?
Unless there is a specific server that users come on to advertise, I don't see how this would benefit the growth of GV. And personally, I'd like to see GV have at least 50 users on at one time again. |
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| by "boboh" on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 12:13:06 AM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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"The point isn't about advertising"
Somebody wanting to advertise would just make temporary accounts every day. We couldn't stop that through ganbot.
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| by "Big Jim Beef BA" on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 9:35:58 PM | | | | | 2 Subjects 259 Posts |
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Also to consider.
Who is being punished?
If the advertiser is serious he makes a trial account, comes back & tries again being more careful the next time to mask the server name better.
The only people being punished are the newbies. |
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| by "boboh" on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 9:32:09 PM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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>You can't say "5 hit" without it being blocked for example.
Is obvoius masking. Not a good example. Why else would you really have to say that besides masking?
10 hours may be high, but have you lost your shouts lately and have a higher modifier?
The point isn't about advertising, kind of minimal to care about that since we are listed everywhere else that all other servers are listed at. It's about slander and things that can be said without defense about other T4C servers. |
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| by "LightningLockey" on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 9:22:03 PM | | | | | | | 41 Subjects 346 Posts |
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I see what your saying, but 10 hours is rediculously harsh.
There were plenty of times when I remember someone new (and often became a gold member) would log on and say they are new to GV and what server they came from and if anyone else was from that server. Saying the server name twice if used in a sentance would be 20 hours of shout loss for a first impression... not ever good lol. You get less shout revoction from most vulgar words.
Someone just told me that it is over someone advertiseing a site. Runescape, another game I play, has tried and failed miserably at doing something similar to blocking sites. Right now their chat filters are so bad, that most talk over instant messager to their friends. You can't say "5 hit" without it being blocked for example.
I can see GV discourageing this, but 10 hours for just saying a server name? If someone is abusive and advertiseing a website, then that is reason for shout removal in my opinion.
This would make one feel that GV was overly strict and really jelous of other servers. That is how if felt when I got shout revoction and I've been here for a while.
Tomarrow I'll have shouts back, I just hope you reconsider this and allow the names of other servers. People will just add spaces or mis-name them if they really want the ad to get threw. Blocking those alterations will most likely result in the bot takeing shouts for unintentional words.
Well, I'm going to bed. |
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| by "Big Jim Beef BA" on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 8:40:05 PM | | | | | 2 Subjects 259 Posts |
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It was added August last year.
Just for the record I've only ever once seen someone advertise a server, that was while I was just a newbie here.
More common are comments like: "this or that server sucks" or "I started on another server, now I'm here". |
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| by "boboh" on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 8:14:19 PM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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| Sure, if you have the dates, that's fine, I was guessing. |
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| by "Big Jim Beef BA" on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 8:06:33 PM | | | | | 2 Subjects 259 Posts |
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| It hasn't been in there for 5 years. I can give you the date if you want. |
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| by "boboh" on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 8:04:37 PM | | | | | | | 154 Subjects 1,654 Posts |
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| It has for about the past 5 years. There is no discussion over main channels about other servers, all the servers agreed to it a long time ago. |
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| by goki on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 7:13:38 PM | | | 16 Subjects 242 Posts |
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Well you been away for some time and this is nothing new to us lol yes it takes away shouts for saying other server names . |
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 | by "LightningLockey" on Saturday, January 21, 2006 - 6:13:27 PM | | | | | | | 41 Subjects 346 Posts |
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Now what the hell... saying realmud takes your shouts away for 600 minutes? Is this an error of some sort? I find it rediculous and annoying, I don't see how realmud would be offensive especially if someone said that "my last server was realmud" and boom... 10 hours of no shouts.
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